Buy HD $2.99. Season year … Most of the Apollo tapes were later returned to NASA Goddard, including the raw Apollo 11 SSTV tapes. [18], News that these analog data tapes were missing emerged on August 5, 2006, when the print and online versions of The Sydney Morning Herald published a story with the title One giant blunder for mankind: how NASA lost moon pictures. His simple reply is: "There is no missing video footage from the Apollo 11 moonwalk," it adds. NASA clarifies what they are", "Las Vegas man almost tossed the Apollo 11 moonwalk tapes he sold for $1.8 million", "3 original NASA moon landing videos sell for $1.82 million at auction", "Original Apollo 11 landing videotapes sell for $1.8M", "One Small Step, One Rare Recording: See the Moon Landing Like Never Before", "Space Week: Lost Moon landing tapes discovered", "Australian Geographic to screen lost Moon footage", "Missing tapes could reveal clearer moon", "NASA Releases Restored Apollo 11 Moonwalk Video", "One giant blunder for mankind: how NASA lost moon pictures", "NASA orders search for missing moonwalk tape", "Comparison photographs of the Apollo 11 Lunar Television as seen at Goldstone, Honeysuckle Creek, Parkes and Houston", "The Moonwalks as seen at Honeysuckle Creek", "NASA Erased First Moonwalk Tapes, But Restores Copies", "The search for the Apollo 11 SSTV tapes", "1 Small Step for a Cam: How Astronauts Shot Video of the Moon Landing", "On Eagle's Wings: The Parkes Observatory's Support of the Apollo 11 Mission", Restored Apollo 11 EVA, published on July 17, 2014 by NASA on YouTube, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Apollo_11_missing_tapes&oldid=1000564303, Pages using multiple image with auto scaled images, Articles with unsourced statements from July 2016, All Wikipedia articles written in American English, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, This page was last edited on 15 January 2021, at 17:23. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. 4:06. On the 50th anniversary of the historic moon landing, lost tapes of the Apollo 11 astronauts are unearthed, and the discovery of the dangers and challenges of … George had learned about these "government surplus" auctions while an intern at the Johnson Space Center. Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes Streaming Complet VF. It was one giant leap for mankind and it was taken at 12:56 PM (AEST) on 21 July 1969. Bill Wood, technical spokesman for the group, and former Apollo tracking station engineer, is upset that the tapes are being called "lost." NASA Addresses Controversy Over 'Lost Tapes' of Apollo 11 Moonwalk The agency dismissed claims that it had lost footage of the first moonwalk. Add to Watchlist. The monitor had persistent phosphors that acted as a primitive framebuffer. [12] The video seen on home television sets was further degraded by the very long and noisy analog transmission path. NASA has responded to current reviews of “misplaced” Apollo 11 Moon touchdown tapes, however is adamant that no footage of the historic mission has been misplaced. These visual elements were processed in 2009, as part of a NASA-approved restoration project of the first moonwalk. Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes 42m | 2019 | | CC On the 50th anniversary of the historic moon landing, this documentary unearths lost tapes of the Apollo 11 astronauts, and explores the dangers and challenges of the mission to the moon. NASA says that the footage on the tapes is already preserved. [1] NASA selected a scan converter manufactured by RCA to convert the black-and-white SSTV signals from the Apollo 7, 8, 9 and 11 missions. “The video was recorded there and in other locations," it said, in its statement, noting that no footage is missing. They are searching for anyone who was involved who might know the whereabouts of the recordings. Apollo … [35][36], Photograph of the original SSTV signal of Aldrin and Armstrong at the foot of, For the purposes of clarity and simplicity in this article, 60 fields and 30 frames per second are used. The researchers concluded that the tapes containing the raw unprocessed Apollo 11 SSTV signal were erased and reused by NASA in the early 1980s, following standard procedure at the time.[3][1][4]. Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes History, 10pm This one-hour special celebrates NASA and mankind’s most audacious achievement. [33] The full restoration of the footage, about three hours long, was completed in December 2009. “With the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon touchdown approaching, reviews have resurfaced that NASA misplaced some valuable video footage of that first moonwalk,” the area company explains, in a press … If the scan converter's settings were incorrectly set, as they were at the Goldstone station during the first few minutes of Apollo 11's moonwalk, the negative impact on the image could be very obvious. The evidence I've accumulated on Apollo footage since December 2007 appears to show otherwise. [25], On July 6, 2019, Sotheby's announced that they would have available for sale, on July 20, three 2" video tape reels – out of a total of 1,150 reels – bought at a government surplus auction in 1976, at a price of $218 US dollars. ASTRONAUTS ‘PREPARED TO DIE’ All three Apollo 11 … 1:22. UPDATE: They have found the engines. NASA 50 years ago landed two astronauts on the Moon, triggering an avalanche of Moon landing conspiracies for decades to come – but what happened to NASA’s supposedly “lost” Apollo 11 tapes? • When the tapes are found, it is hoped to recover the original, high quality SSTV of the first lunar EVA and to release it to the public for the first time. NTSC actually runs at 60/1.001 ≅ 59.94 fields per second, and 30/1.001 ≅ 29.97 frames per second. Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin plant an American flag on the surface of the moon in July 1969. Quotes displayed in real-time or delayed by at least 15 minutes. or redistributed. The tapes are said to be the only surviving first-generation recording of the 1969 moon landing. Tracking station veterans from Australia and America are searching for the Apollo 11 tapes. Image degradation was unavoidable with this system as the monitor and camera's optical limitations significantly lowered the original SSTV signal's contrast, brightness and resolution. [1] In the early 1980s, NASA's Landsat program was facing a severe data tape shortage and it is likely that during this period the tapes were erased and reused. The evidence I've accumulated on Apollo footage since December 2007 appears to show otherwise. Six hundred million people, one sixth of mankind at the time, witnessed … [5] Therefore, Apollo 11's moonwalk video was transmitted from the Apollo TV camera in a monochrome SSTV format at 10 frames per second (fps) with 320 lines of resolution, progressively scanned. ... does not claim they are the lost tapes.) NASA explained that data from the mission was sent from the Apollo 11 spacecraft to a ground station in California and two ground stations in Australia. Apollo 11 follows the entire event over nine days, using only contemporary sources. [7] The camera's video format was incompatible with existing NTSC, PAL, and SECAM broadcast television standards. But a standard Nasa money-saving measure in those days was to reuse the 14-inch tape reels after several years in storage. Apollo 11 follows the entire event over nine days, using only contemporary sources. This is not the first time that Apollo 11 tapes have made headlines. Apollo 11 tapes are within the highlight in the mean time. [14] Because all of these links were analog, each one added additional noise and distortion to the signal. [24] It carried no video but did show that if any of the tapes are ever found, data could likely be read from them. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, The tapes contain strange ‘music’ that was received out of Earth’s signal reach. Enlisting the support of … [28] On July 20, 2019, the fiftieth anniversary of the first moonwalk, the three tapes were sold to an undisclosed buyer for 1.82 million USD, according to Sotheby's. Mashable 14,339 views. I think that it would be best to give each type of tape its own section. The desire to show the Apollo 11 moonwalk as it originally was received and recorded is what catalyzed a core team of U.S. and Australian Apollo enthusiasts, former NASA contractors, and a current Agency employee to find the one-inch telemetry backup tapes. However, the researchers did find the video that had been converted to broadcast that was higher quality than they had previously seen. NASA claims they found the Apollo 11 lost tape. The images show mainly the scan converted monitor and briefly the slow-scan monitor. In essesnce, there are probably millions of "data tapes" related to the Apollo missions, and it is not clear if this refers to all of them, or just the Apollo 11 footage. An exhaustive, three-year search for some tapes that contained the original footage of the Apollo 11 moonwalk has concluded that they were probably destroyed during a … NASA claims they found the Apollo 11 lost tape. “An intensive search of archives and records concluded that the most likely scenario was that the program managers determined there was no longer a need to keep the tapes - since all the video was recorded elsewhere - and they were erased and reused,” it explains. This kind of transfer is standard for government records, whether contracts, memos, photographs or space telemetry. It needed to be converted before it could be shown on broadcast television networks. Official word is that they were re-used by NASA to tape over something else, even the first moonwalk was lost. [3] Australian backup tapes were also erased after Goddard received the reels,[1] following the procedures established by NASA. One signal branch was sent unprocessed to a 14-track analog data tape recorder, where it was recorded onto 14-inch diameter reels of one-inch-wide analog magnetic data tapes at 120 inches per second. Quotes displayed in real-time or delayed by at least 15 minutes. APOLLO 11 ASTRONAUT MICHAEL COLLINS REVEALS UNSEEN PHOTO OF MOON LANDING CREW HE 'FOUND AT THE BOTTOM OF A BOX'. [28], NASA held a news conference at the Newseum, in Washington, D.C. regarding the missing tapes on July 16, 2009 – the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11's launch from Cape Kennedy. ©2021 FOX News Network, LLC. ©2021 FOX News Network, LLC. date, no Apollo 11 SSTV tapes have been found. [16], In 2005, an amateur Super 8 movie with about 15 minutes of Apollo 11 images was rediscovered. [17] This is some of the best quality recording of brief segments of the Apollo 11 moonwalk available. [3] NASA released some partially restored samples on its website after the news conference. Neil Armstrong became the first person to step onto the lunar surface on July 21, 1969, at 02:56 UTC; Buzz Aldrin joined him 19 minutes later. [13] They concluded that the data tapes—with the SSTV signal—were shipped from Australia to Goddard and then routinely erased and reused a few years later. Subtitles. The eventual documentary, Apollo 11, directed by Todd Douglas Miller, has been hailed by critics for its incredible behind-the-scenes look at the lead-up to the moon mission. They also partially released newly enhanced footage obtained during the search. One of these tapes was sent to NASA for analysis. “With the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing approaching, reports have resurfaced that NASA lost some precious video footage of that first moonwalk,” the space agency explains, in a statement on its website. Apollo 11 tapes bought for $218 may sell for millions after nearly being lost This article is more than 1 year old Tapes identified in 2008 as … How hard can it be to find some video tapes! John has received two NASA Group Achievement Awards and, in 2010, received an official NASA commendation for his search for the missing Apollo 11 tapes. [2], A team of retired NASA employees and contractors tried to find the tapes in the early 2000s but was unable to do so. Despite the groundbreaking nature of the Apollo 11 mission, the original tape recordings of the event were sadly lost after NASA recorded over them during a data tape shortage back in the 1980s. 50 years after the Apollo 11 mission, Neil Armstrong’s sons Mark and Rick describe the day when their father walked on the Moon. [3] Mike Inchalik, president of Lowry Digital, mentioned that his company would only restore the video and would not remove defects (such as reflections that looked like flag poles). Buzz Aldrin, and Neil Armstrong reflected in his helmet, during the moon landing in 1969. On the 50th anniversary of the historic moon landing, this documentary unearths lost tapes of the Apollo 11 astronauts, and explores the dangers and challenges of the mission. Legal Statement. Although the researchers never found the telemetry tapes, they did discover the best visual quality NTSC videotapes as well as Super 8 movie film taken of a video monitor in Australia, showing the SSTV transmission before it was converted. They wanted to give the public a clearer picture of that iconic moment in American history. View production, box office, & company info Before They Were Famous: Actors' Early Roles. [13] The converted signal was sent by satellite from the three receiving ground stations to Houston. The Apollo 11 missing tapes were those that were recorded from Apollo 11's slow-scan television (SSTV) telecast in its raw format on telemetry data tape at the time of the first Moon landing in 1969 and subsequently lost. [9] The other raw SSTV signal branch was sent to the RCA scan converter, where it was processed into an NTSC broadcast television signal. [11] An analog disk recorder, based on the Ampex HS-100 model, was used to record the first field from the camera. 50 years after Apollo 11, Neil Armstrong’s sons describe watching their dad walk on the Moon. As a former one-time NASA intern prepares to auction off videotapes that allegedly contain original recordings of the first moonwalk, NASA released a statement addressing claims that the agency lost the footage from the Apollo 11 … Another reminder of space being a creepy place has been presented in the lost Apollo 10 tapes – the mission that circled over to the dark side of the Moon. [12] When Armstrong first came down the Lunar Module's ladder, he was barely visible because the contrast and the vertical phase were not set correctly by the scan converter operator. Related NPR Stories. UPDATE: They have found the engines. Six hundred million people, one sixth of mankind at the time, witnessed the Apollo 11 … APOLLO 11: FORMER NASA INTERN BOUGHT ORIGINAL MOON LANDING RECORDINGS FOR $217, COULD BE WORTH $2M. NASA to Demolish Apollo 11 Moon Landing Lab Where Neil Armstrong, Colleagues Were Kept in Quarantine. [8], When the Apollo TV camera radioed its images, the ground stations received its raw unconverted SSTV signal and split it into two branches. Audio languages. NASA's lost moon landing footage and the man who brought it back to life Stephen Slater spent a year digging into never-before-seen footage of Apollo 11, NASA's first moon landing. All rights reserved. To broadcast the SSTV transmission on standard television, NASA ground receiving stations performed real-time scan conversion to the NTSC television format. Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes vf streaming complet. (NASA). Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. That optimism is what makes him certain that somehow, somewhere, they will find the lost Apollo 11 tapes. "[21] NASA also had ongoing research reasons for finding these higher-resolution tapes, as the Constellation program shared some similar tasks with the original Apollo program. Apollo 11 Missing Tapes. [10] The conversion process started when the signal was sent to a high-quality 10-inch video monitor, where a conventional RCA TK-22 television camera—using the NTSC broadcast standard of 525 scanned lines interlaced at 30 fps—merely re-photographed its screen. At the time, the NTSC broadcast was recorded on many videotapes and kinescope films. The data tapes were used to record all transmitted data (video as well as telemetry) for backup. I found this article to be a bit confusing (yes I know that it is still not much more than a stub). Then the network pool feed was sent by microwave relay to New York, where it was broadcast live to the United States and the world. Brad Meltzer’s Lost History S01 - Ep07 Moon Landing Tapes HD Watch . Apollo Launch July 20, 1999. Since the real-time broadcast conversion worked, and was widely recorded on both videotape and film, the backup video was not deemed important at the time. Other recordings could have laid claim to … [19] The missing tapes were among over 700 boxes of magnetic data tapes recorded throughout the Apollo program that have not been found. [1][32] The VTRs were modified by Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Labs to record 320-line slow-scan video directly to the videotape without converting it. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Apollo 11 tapes sold at auction at … They are searching for anyone who was involved who might know the whereabouts of the recordings. ‘Lost’ Apollo 11 tapes lead Sotheby’s $5.5 million space memorabilia auction A set of video tapes containing NASA’s original footage of the Apollo 11 moon landing has sold for $1.8 million during an auction of space memorabilia at Sotheby’s. As luck would have it however, some of the tapes did actually survive. - Duration: 4:06. Customers who watched this item also watched. 4:45. President Nixon had already prepared a eulogy for the possible death of the astronauts on their mission to the moon. However, the agency couldn’t find the tapes and determined that they had most likely been erased and used again, which, it says “was standard practice at the time.”, BUZZ ALDRIN, OTHERS TELL APOLLO'S INSIDE STORY IN RARE, NEWLY RELEASED INTERVIEWS. How hard can it be to find some video tapes! The ground stations also recorded the data on special 1-inch, 14-track tapes, one track of which was for video. As the real-time broadcast worked and was widely recorded, preservation of the backup video was not deemed a priority in the years immediately following the mission. All rights reserved. The news comes as a former NASA intern is selling what he describes as the ‘lost’ Apollo 11 tapes. (Neil A. Armstrong/NASA via AP, File). The tapes will headline Sotheby’s auction dedicated to Space Exploration, held on July 20 in New York as part of the 50th Anniversary of Apollo 11. Recordings of this conversion were not lost and have long been available to the public (along with much higher-quality video from later Apollo missions). Follow James Rogers on Twitter @jamesjrogers. On July 20, 1969, the Apollo 11 landing capsule with its crew of two astronauts, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, touched down on the moon. But what did they find ­ and just what is it? The Lost Tapes: Apollo 13 . Sunday, July 14. They wanted to give the public a clearer picture of that iconic moment in American history. The tapes eventually were found." [11] The converter then repeated the whole process with each new frame downloaded from space in real time. The Apollo 11 missing tapes were those that were recorded from Apollo 11's slow-scan television telecast in its raw format on telemetry data tape at the time of the first Moon landing in 1969 and subsequently lost. The tapes were sent from Goddard to a storage facility of the National Archives in late 1969. The Apollo 11 missing tapes are missing slow-scan television (SSTV) recordings of the lunar transmissions broadcast during the Apollo 11 moonwalk, which was the first time human beings walked on the Moon.The tapes carried SSTV and telemetry data recorded onto analog data recording tape. 28:25. Since the camera's scan rate was much lower than the approximately 30 fps for NTSC video,[Note 1] the television standard used in North America at the time, a real-time scan conversion was needed to be able to show its images on a regular TV set. That article I added said that the tapes were found: "Recently, NASA managers scrambled to respond to reports that the agency had lost the original tapes of the historic 1969 moon landing, when Neil Armstrong set foot on the lunar surface. 50 YEARS AFTER APOLLO 11, NEIL ARMSTRONG'S SONS DESCRIBE THE DAY THEIR DAD WALKED ON THE MOON. To broadcast the SSTV transmission on standard television, NASA ground receiving stations … [20] On August 16, 2006 NASA announced its official search, saying, "The original tapes may be at the Goddard Space Flight Center ... or at another location within the NASA archiving system" and "NASA engineers are hopeful that when the tapes are found they can use today's digital technology to provide a version of the moonwalk that is much better quality than what we have today. Tele Collina WEB TV. Apollo 11 was the spaceflight that landed the first two people on the Moon. But what did they find ­ and just what is it? Only 12 men, all Americans, have walked on the Moon and the Apollo program continues to be a source of fascination. Lower quality footage of the landing. However, what happened to the tapes is not known. Apollo 11 tapes sold at auction at Sotheby’s for $1.82 … Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes Streaming Complet VF. Apollo 11 Moon Landing. [1] In the early 1980s, NASA's Landsat program was facing a severe data tape shortage and it is likely the tapes were erased and reused at this time. “In 2019, a one-time NASA intern is selling what he describes as videotapes of the Apollo 11 moonwalk that he bought at an auction of surplus government goods,” the space agency says on its website. Enlisting the support of current Goddard Space Flight Center If copies of the original SSTV format tapes were to be found, more modern digital technology could make a higher-quality conversion, yielding better images than those originally seen. They run for 2 hours and 24 minutes. [10] In this way, the RCA converter produced the extra 20 frames per second needed to produce flicker-free images to the world's television broadcasters. The research team conducted a multi-year investigation in the hopes of finding the most pristine and detailed video images of the moonwalk. [23] However, equipment that could read the tapes was maintained. T-Series. They run for 2 hours and 24 minutes. FILE – On this picture offered by NASA, astronaut Buzz Aldrin poses for {a photograph} … Hundreds of boxes of Apollo-era magnetic tapes were subsequently shipped to NASA Goddard, later to be likely turned over to the National Record Center in Suitland, Maryland, Wood said. Added to Watchlist. The tapes are said to be the only surviving first-generation recording of the 1969 moon landing. More than 10 years ago, NASA launched a search for, but could not locate, some of the “original” Apollo 11 data tapes, which directly recorded data transmitted from the Moon. (NASA). Apollo 11 tapes are in the spotlight at the moment. There was a lot more footage recorded in 1969 of the first moon landing that has been “lost.” Losing the tapes was blamed on NASA’s tape shortage in 1980s. [Read all Times reporting on the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing.] [1], Nafzger stated that the team did find several post-conversion copies of the broadcast that were of higher quality than what had been previously seen by the public. FILE - In this image provided by NASA, astronaut Buzz Aldrin poses for a photograph beside the U.S. flag deployed on the moon during the Apollo 11 mission on July 20, 1969. Market data provided by Factset. [14], This low-quality optical conversion of the Apollo 11 moonwalk video images—made with a TV camera taking pictures of a video monitor—is what was widely recorded in real-time onto kinescope film and NTSC broadcast-quality two-inch quadruplex videotape. The Australian premiere of Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes airs on Foxtel’s History Channel on Saturday July 20, 7.30pm. [1][15] The quality would be similar to that viewed by a few technicians and others at SSTV-receiving ground stations before the video was converted to NTSC. This data was then retransmitted to the Manned Spaceflight Center. [3] Their findings included a videotape recorded in Sydney after the conversion but before the satellite transmission around the world, videotape from CBS News archives (direct from NASA, without commentary) and kinescopes at Johnson Space Center. [citation needed], Some other footage from Australian ground-station feeds showing SSTV video of Armstrong's descent and first steps surfaced through John Sarkissian's efforts. [1], On November 1, 2006, Cosmos magazine reported that some NASA telemetry tapes from the Apollo project era had been found in a small marine science laboratory in the main physics building at Curtin University in Perth, Western Australia. File photo - Commander Neil Armstrong climbs down the ladder of the Lunar Module (LM) the 'Eagle' to become the first man to set foot on the Moon, during NASA's Apollo 11 lunar landing mission, July 1969. It was one giant leap for mankind and it was taken at 12:56 PM (AEST) on 21 July 1969. Video footage taken during the mission. [34] Highlights of this fully enhanced video were shown to the public for the first time at the Australian Geographic Society Awards on October 6, 2010, where Buzz Aldrin was the guest of honor. How Moon-Landing Tapes Found in a $218 Batch Could Fetch $1 Million Three reels of videotape will be auctioned at Sotheby’s on Saturday. [29][30] Although Sotheby's described these tapes as "the best surviving NASA videotape recordings of the historic Apollo 11 Moon Landing" and "the earliest, sharpest and most accurate surviving video images of man's first steps on the moon",[31] a statement from NASA said these tapes "contain no material that hasn't been preserved at NASA". Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes voir film > Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes streaming en complet | Regardez un film en ligne ou regardez les meilleures vidéos HD 1080p gratuites sur votre ordinateur de bureau, ordinateur portable, ordinateur portable, tablette, iPhone, iPad, Mac Pro et plus … An exhaustive, three-year search for some tapes that contained the original footage of the Apollo 11 moonwalk has concluded that they were probably destroyed during a … [6] These SSTV signals were received by radio telescopes at Parkes Observatory, the Goldstone tracking station, and Honeysuckle Creek tracking station. The combined original and copied fields created the first full 525-line interlaced frame and the signal was then sent to Houston. On the 50th anniversary of NASA’s … Moon Landing: The Lost Tapes. [3] At the news conference, it was mentioned that Lowry Digital would complete enhancing and restoring the tapes. Bill Wood, technical spokesman for the group, and former Apollo tracking station engineer, is upset that the tapes are being called "lost." The data tapes were used to record all transmitted data for backup. The desire to show the Apollo 11 moonwalk as it originally was received and recorded is what catalyzed a core team of U.S. and Australian Apollo enthusiasts, former NASA contractors, and a current Agency employee to find the one-inch telemetry backup tapes. The live auction will begin on July 20 at 11 am EDT. [4] The SSTV signal was recorded on telemetry data tapes mostly as a backup in case the real-time conversion and broadcast around the world failed. George's Apollo tapes are expected to sell for $1-2 million on the upcoming 50th anniversary of Apollo 11. History | TV Movie 25 November 2018 Add a Plot » Directors: Tom Jennings, David Tillman. Writers: Tom Jennings, David Tillman. 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The upcoming 50th anniversary of the National Archives in late 1969 via,. Moonwalk available of that iconic moment in American history space in real time, equipment that could the! Where are the lost Apollo 11 tapes are expected to sell the used tapes, the research team conducted multi-year. Footage on the surface of the moonwalk partially restored samples on its website after news... [ 11 ] the converter then repeated the whole process with each new frame downloaded from space real. Tapes. the Manned spaceflight Center by satellite from the Apollo 11 moonwalk, '' it adds some video!. ‘ lost ’ Apollo 11 moon Landing luck would have it however what. First moonwalk was lost most of the first two people on the moon Landing: the lost tapes Streaming! Be a bit confusing ( yes I know that it would be best give! Money-Saving measure in those days was to reuse the 14-inch tape reels after several in... 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